Homeopathy on the NHS

[chaggle]

There is a proposal to ban GPs prescribing homeopathy.

Article on BBC breakfast TV shortly - I think Michael Marshall of the Good Thinking Society might be speaking.

[Tony Williams]

Saw that - it was Simon Singh.

To play devil's advocate: I must admit that the more I read about the remarkable power of the placebo effect, the more relaxed I feel about homeopathy when prescribed for those minor but troubling ailments which don't seem to respond to real treatments. Doctors understandably don't feel comfortable about openly prescribing placebos, but if they can send their patients off for something which makes them feel better and does no harm, at a low cost, that has some attractions. Damn sight better than just prescribing antibiotics which they know won't work, anyway.

[Brian1945]

But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

[Brian1945]

This article descibes the proposal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-347448 ... icRSS20-sa

[chaggle]

Saw that - it was Simon Singh.

To play devil's advocate: I must admit that the more I read about the remarkable power of the placebo effect, the more relaxed I feel about homeopathy when prescribed for those minor but troubling ailments which don't seem to respond to real treatments. Doctors understandably don't feel comfortable about openly prescribing placebos, but if they can send their patients off for something which makes them feel better and does no harm, at a low cost, that has some attractions. Damn sight better than just prescribing antibiotics which they know won't work, anyway.

Michael Marshall was on live at 8:35ish. There is a video on facebook - I expect it will be on youtube at some point - will keep an eye out for it.

There's a good bit where Peter Fisher (on a video link) was blurbing on about OTC remedies actually having some ingredients and the camera cut back to Marshall shaking his head in frustration.

I have to say that Fisher had a pretty desperate look about him - as if he could see his world about to fall apart.

[chaggle]

But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

I was at a sitp once given by a retired surgeon about sCAM and these points were made.

The speaker (sorry can't remember his name) said that quite a few non-sCAM doctors were concerned about the trend towards EBM as they felt that they should have the freedom to prescribe or advise what they felt best under the circumstances and shouldn't be restricted to only EBM.

A young trainee doctor said that under some circumstances (probably someone with nothing actually wrong with them) she might say something like... "You might like to think about a homeopathic treatment. It is controversial and I'm not going to prescribe it and I personally don't see that it can work but many people swear by it".

The problem is that they get cancer and say "Thanks, Doc - the Homeopathy worked perfectly - much better than your allopathic stuff. I'm going to take Fairydust 30c instead of chemo".

[Abdul Alhazred]

Insofar as it's a question of the government regulating the medical profession (which is to say it's not just a "socialized medicine" issue with the NHS in the UK), why should homeopathy be legal at all anywhere?

[Tony Williams]

But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

Yes, I can see that. It's just a pity that there doesn't seem to be any non-woo form of cheap and harmless "treatment" involving the personal care and attention which I think is at the heart of the placebo effect, and which doctors don't have the time to give.

[chaggle]

Michael Marshall vs Peter Fisher on BBC tv this morning ...

(To switch to full screen, click the Full screen icon in the bottom corner of the video player.

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gif from Hampshire Skeptics...

[smudge]

But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

Yes, I can see that. It's just a pity that there doesn't seem to be any non-woo form of cheap and harmless "treatment" involving the personal care and attention which I think is at the heart of the placebo effect, and which doctors don't have the time to give.

What we need is a space in a all GP surgeries and NHS hospitals set aside for people that need a hug and a back rub (I'm not being sarcastic!).
It does seem that many doctors are knowingly using homeopathy as a placebo. I wonder if they might just prescribe aspirin or eating a banana instead? They could imply some non existent benefit (enough to give a placebo effect?) without propping up a bullshit industry.

[bindeweede]

NHS Liverpool CCG ends funding for homeopathy

"The Good Thinking Society welcomed today’s decision by NHS Liverpool CCG to decommission homeopathy services. The decision comes after months of public consultation which showed overwhelming support from Liverpool residents for an end to funding." (June 14th, 2016.)

http://goodthinkingsociety.org/nhs-live ... omeopathy/

[Tony.Williams]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/nhs-boss-pres ... 36785.html

NHS boss: Prescribing homeopathic medicine is ‘absurd’

The boss of NHS England has said homeopathic medicine is “placebo at best” and it is “absurd” for doctors to prescribe it.

[Tinkerbell]

'HEALTH: The case for homeopathy'

By the end of 2014, 104 placebo-controlled homeopathy trials had been published in peer-reviewed journals. Forty-three found homeopathy was effective, five found it ineffective and the remainder were inconclusive, according to the Homeopathy Research Institute. This is comparable with conventional medicine, according to a Cochrane Collaboration analysis.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/art ... z56b0IwKVc
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/art ... pathy.html
Found this in the Mail magazine that was given to my parents last weekend. Thought I'd share it with you all. You're welcome

[chaggle]

GP Dr Michael Dixon, chair of the College of Medicine...

Impressive! Apart from The College of Medicine is the remnants of Prince Charles' quackery promoting Foundation for Integrated Health.

[Tony.Williams]

GP Dr Michael Dixon, chair of the College of Medicine...

Impressive! Apart from The College of Medicine is the remnants of Prince Charles' quackery promoting Foundation for Integrated Health.

Oh dear, and it sounded such an impressive institution!